Tue Jan 30 15:26:48 2001: :mdean!-mdean@64.134.33.117 JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 15:53:32 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 15:58:10 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 15:59:27 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:00:09 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Hey, what's the phone # and password for the conference call? Tue Jan 30 16:00:31 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net PRIVMSG #joint-committee :(wrong machine, no access to regular email) Tue Jan 30 16:00:53 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:01:16 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PRIVMSG #joint-committee : U.S.: 888-483-2662 Tue Jan 30 16:01:24 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PRIVMSG #joint-committee :outside U.S.: +1-310-312-5889 Tue Jan 30 16:01:42 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Enter passcode 6428 followed by the # sign Tue Jan 30 16:01:46 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net PRIVMSG #joint-committee :thanks Tue Jan 30 16:02:31 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Role Call Tue Jan 30 16:03:39 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike, Lynn, Peter, Ora, Ian, Frank, Jeff, miss anyone? Tue Jan 30 16:04:00 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :New www.daml.org up and running Tue Jan 30 16:04:15 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :joint committee email archive is now public Tue Jan 30 16:04:26 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Corrections to last weeks meeting? Tue Jan 30 16:04:38 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Minutes approved! Tue Jan 30 16:05:03 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Main agenda item ... reach a consensus on the concrete types proposal Tue Jan 30 16:05:57 2001: :Frankh!-Frank.van@node10467.a2000.nl JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:06:30 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Summary requested :) Tue Jan 30 16:06:32 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net QUIT :Ping timeout Tue Jan 30 16:06:53 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: Jeff didn't like the separation of concrete and abstract propoerties and the necessity for duplicating the syntax Tue Jan 30 16:07:20 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: I believe there is a good reason, its the only way you can get the semantics to work Tue Jan 30 16:07:45 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: Negating restrictions where properties are involved gives problems with semantics Tue Jan 30 16:09:33 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Clarification questions: Does this proposal mean that concrete and abstract domains are forever disjoint? Yes. Tue Jan 30 16:09:40 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:11:13 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Question: Can you take a union of integers (concrete) and other things (abstract)? No. Tue Jan 30 16:12:59 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: We're going around in circles. Tue Jan 30 16:13:18 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Stephan: No, there have been concerns re: separation of concrete and abstract types all along. Tue Jan 30 16:15:15 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:15:28 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian (Frank?): the issue is whether to restrict the language so we can guarantee soundness, completeness, and reasonably efficient inference or whether we can only infer over a subset of the language. Tue Jan 30 16:15:59 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Pat: What is the concrete difficulty of allowing mixed classes? Tue Jan 30 16:16:27 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :pfps: (1) mixing makes it hell to implement and (2) [pjh interrupts] Tue Jan 30 16:16:48 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :pfps: Do we allow people to put properties on numbers? Tue Jan 30 16:17:29 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :(Roughly: PJH yes, PFPS no) Tue Jan 30 16:20:03 2001: :mdean!-mdean@64.134.33.117 PRIVMSG #joint-committee :question for the (non-speaking group): rdfs:Property can currently take on abstract or concrete (literal) values Tue Jan 30 16:20:34 2001: :mdean!-mdean@64.134.33.117 PRIVMSG #joint-committee :can we make AbstractProperty and ConcreteProperty disjoint subClasses of rdfs:Property Tue Jan 30 16:20:57 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Is Dan Connolly on the voice channel? Tue Jan 30 16:21:15 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :He wasn't on at role call Tue Jan 30 16:21:20 2001: :mdean!-mdean@64.134.33.117 PRIVMSG #joint-committee :spanning for now, with the possibility that future language revisions might relax this restriction for other subclases of rdfs:Property? Tue Jan 30 16:25:06 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike: Deb requested last week that we take a vote this week. We would like to get this far today. Tue Jan 30 16:27:48 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu QUIT :going to look for tim and dan.... Tue Jan 30 16:33:57 2001: :ora!-ora@adsl-141-154-15-140.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net QUIT :Ping timeout Tue Jan 30 16:35:33 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :example of the type of property you might want to put on the integers: property that they at some time were the number of employees in my company. Tue Jan 30 16:38:34 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :does anyone know of a reasoner that is efficient doing this? Snark(?) Tue Jan 30 16:40:19 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: We have one proposal and some problems with this. Perhaps the next move is to come up with a second proposal. Tue Jan 30 16:43:04 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Lynn: This concrete types proposal makes it possible that things we do in the future will not be compatible with this. Tue Jan 30 16:43:53 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 16:44:17 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :sorry - just got to a computer so am just online now Tue Jan 30 16:44:37 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :This is Dieter? Tue Jan 30 16:44:46 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :no - deborah McGuinness Tue Jan 30 16:44:53 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :hehe, ok, guessing on d names :) Tue Jan 30 16:45:17 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :no problem (dieter's login is dieter) Tue Jan 30 16:48:01 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Deb: Retracts her motion to vote today. Tue Jan 30 16:48:30 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Using XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and DAML+OIL http://www.w3.org/2001/01/ct24 Tue Jan 30 16:49:16 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Tim is on voice channel Tue Jan 30 16:52:06 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike: Take last minutes to finish up some more topics Tue Jan 30 16:52:35 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike: About concrete types proposal, wait and see what we get this next week Tue Jan 30 16:53:19 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian: Phrase it stronger ... we need something new before we discuss this again. Tue Jan 30 16:56:06 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Request that Deb respond to the rdf-logic list about having dealt with the separation of concrete and abstract. Tue Jan 30 17:04:19 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 17:07:14 2001: :mdean!-mdean@64.134.33.117 QUIT :Ping timeout Tue Jan 30 17:09:36 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :I will post something about using a system with the separation Tue Jan 30 17:15:51 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike: Tue Jan 30 17:16:29 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Three main activities on the language: Presentation first day - straw man in meetings, please look at it. Tue Jan 30 17:16:49 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Break out sessions - chance to extend these discussions, 90 minutes to two hours. Tue Jan 30 17:17:25 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Birds of a feather sessions - two sessions with maybe four parallel tracks ... less formal than break out sessions Tue Jan 30 17:17:42 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Perhaps one will be about rules ... other topics a group are interested in, that would be good. Tue Jan 30 17:18:09 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Idea of the BOF is that something long term may or may not come of them. Tue Jan 30 17:18:49 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Who is coming? Tue Jan 30 17:18:56 2001: :Frankh!-Frank.van@node10467.a2000.nl QUIT :Ping timeout Tue Jan 30 17:20:06 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Deb, Pat, Jeff, Ian, Frank, Mike, (no Dan C), (no Tim) Tue Jan 30 17:20:55 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Speakerphones available for the break out groups on the 14 adn 15th? Yes, that can be arranged Tue Jan 30 17:22:01 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :is there a url for the proposed agenda? Tue Jan 30 17:23:04 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Deb, I will try to track down a url for you and put it in the minutes. Tue Jan 30 17:23:13 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :thx Tue Jan 30 17:24:00 2001: :Frankh!-Frank.van@node10467.a2000.nl JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 30 17:27:10 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Other suggestions for bof sessions would be great ... send them to Mike. Tue Jan 30 17:27:26 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Meeting adjourned.... Tue Jan 30 17:27:28 2001: :Kelly!-kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com QUIT : Tue Jan 30 17:27:39 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :./exit Tue Jan 30 17:27:46 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu QUIT :Leaving Tue Jan 30 17:27:51 2001: :Frankh!-Frank.van@node10467.a2000.nl QUIT : Tue Jan 30 17:27:52 2001: :Ian!-horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PART #joint-committee :Ian Tue Jan 30 17:28:04 2001: :las!-las@gonzo.ai.mit.edu QUIT :turining into a pumpkin.... Tue Jan 30 18:54:14 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :exit Tue Jan 30 18:54:17 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #joint-committee :quit Tue Jan 30 18:54:21 2001: :dlm!-dlm@KSL-2.Stanford.EDU QUIT :