Tue Jan 23 15:56:01 2001: :stefan!+stefan@Stefan.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 15:59:54 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 16:03:51 2001: :Ian!=horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 16:07:12 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 16:08:13 2001: :jah-darpa!-jah-darpa@ws202-99.darpa.mil JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 16:09:01 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Role Call: Tue Jan 23 16:09:13 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian, Mike, Peter, Jim, Stefan, Jeff ... did I miss anyone? Tue Jan 23 16:09:44 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Announcements: Tue Jan 23 16:10:15 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :International calling cards ... talk to John Flynn Tue Jan 23 16:10:22 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :IRC Chat up in parallel Tue Jan 23 16:10:34 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :New www.daml.org site will be launched this week Tue Jan 23 16:11:04 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Corrections ... no one spoke up Tue Jan 23 16:11:24 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Meeting: Tue Jan 23 16:11:32 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian's revised proposal Tue Jan 23 16:11:42 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Jeff and Peter's conversation about restrictions on property ... Tue Jan 23 16:11:57 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :(noted) Ian and Peter's proposal Tue Jan 23 16:12:45 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :we are far ahead of rdf schema ... so we may chose a way that is different from what rdf accepts later on Tue Jan 23 16:14:25 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :looking at the example, santa ... putting data types inline with the propert Tue Jan 23 16:16:48 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :The type can sometimes be determined from the range that is listed for the property ... ie the shoe size has a range of decimal so you know that the property value 9.5 is a decimal without having to specify it Tue Jan 23 16:17:18 2001: :las!+las@24-6-132.wireless.lcs.mit.edu JOIN :#joint-committee Tue Jan 23 16:17:39 2001: :las!+las@24-6-132.wireless.lcs.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :ACTION marvels at the difference in internet connections between the two sides of this building. Tue Jan 23 16:17:59 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee : *grins* Tue Jan 23 16:18:47 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :... Lynn has joined ... Tue Jan 23 16:19:16 2001: :las!+las@24-6-132.wireless.lcs.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :ACTION joined by voice about 5 minutes ago, but could only just now convince the computer to talk to daml.org. Tue Jan 23 16:20:31 2001: :las!+las@24-6-132.wireless.lcs.mit.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :ACTION tried to mute again, and instead dropped out of the voice channel. I just love this technology :o( Tue Jan 23 16:21:53 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :... Tim has joined ... Tue Jan 23 16:22:27 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Talk about the Q (?) properties and Jeff's proposal Tue Jan 23 16:23:05 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :More of a discussion about parallel properties ... two properties, one for each concrete and abstract Tue Jan 23 16:25:42 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Example ... hasValue and hasDataValue ... Tue Jan 23 16:25:59 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :we have them because of the disjointness of the properties Tue Jan 23 16:26:17 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Suggested (Jeff) that they can be disjoint with a class that joins them Tue Jan 23 16:27:27 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Semantically they are pretty much the same, so why does the syntax have to be different? Tue Jan 23 16:28:19 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Peter ... not convinced that is would me more difficult .. just do away with it in one fell swoop Tue Jan 23 16:29:12 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Tim - seems like people will want to say that a title is concrete, or that it is abstract and may contain pictures, or other things Tue Jan 23 16:29:41 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Tim - seems like this decision might be arbitrary Tue Jan 23 16:35:31 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - we have a top class for concrete types, should we have one that is the top class for concrete and abstract Tue Jan 23 16:35:57 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :This breaks simplicity Tue Jan 23 16:36:08 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :This also breaks rdf Tue Jan 23 16:40:51 2001: :jah-darpa!-jah-darpa@ws202-99.darpa.mil PRIVMSG #joint-committee :ACTION just figured out why I keep yelling and no one hears me - I somehow had been transformed into muted mode -- las is right about this technology! Tue Jan 23 16:42:02 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Jim - use issues vs. logically consistent. Tue Jan 23 16:49:52 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :request to have these examples written down Tue Jan 23 16:50:22 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :*wishes she was better at recognizing peoples voices* Tue Jan 23 16:50:48 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian made the request, Tim accepted to do it Tue Jan 23 16:51:03 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - request to revisit the Q predicate Tue Jan 23 16:52:19 2001: :jah-darpa!-jah-darpa@ws202-99.darpa.mil PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Jim H. has to go -- keep up the good work all - signing off the phone. Tue Jan 23 16:56:10 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Could different types of restrictions simplify this ... or fix this? (who said it?) Tue Jan 23 16:56:18 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu PRIVMSG #joint-committee :I did Tue Jan 23 16:56:27 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee ::) Tue Jan 23 16:58:48 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee : ... Deb has been here, just heard her ... Tue Jan 23 16:59:30 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Deb suggests that cutting down is too dangerous to pursue Tue Jan 23 16:59:49 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - put doctor and children example in the notes (oops) and maybe add it to the walkthrough Tue Jan 23 17:01:47 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :recommend that we keep the hasQ separate ... Deb Tue Jan 23 17:02:13 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Ian ... we plan to keep it, how do we keep the growth under control? Tue Jan 23 17:05:01 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Sometimes simplification in terms of having less properties means making the semantics or tools more difficult Tue Jan 23 17:07:51 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - request that Deb write something up and send it to rdf-logic about the feedback from the lady writing the parser Tue Jan 23 17:08:13 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - are we ready to make a decision on the concrete types Tue Jan 23 17:09:30 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - anyone want to take an action item -- looking at the semantics about using hasValue and hasDataValue - Tue Jan 23 17:12:38 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Jeff would like to hear opinions from others! Tue Jan 23 17:12:55 2001: :las!+las@24-6-132.wireless.lcs.mit.edu QUIT :turning into a pumpkin.... Tue Jan 23 17:13:14 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Mike - homework assignment to think about this! And to come back with suggestions to fix the things they are worried about. Tue Jan 23 17:15:27 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Motion to accept the concrete data types proposal next week. All suggestions need to be concrete at this point. Tue Jan 23 17:19:24 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PRIVMSG #joint-committee :Meeting adjourned. Tue Jan 23 17:19:29 2001: :jheflin!-heflin@redqueen.cs.umd.edu QUIT :Leaving Tue Jan 23 17:19:39 2001: :Kelly!+kmbarber@c452690-d.spokn1.wa.home.com PART #joint-committee :Kelly Tue Jan 23 17:21:10 2001: :Ian!=horrocks@oaklands.demon.co.uk PART #joint-committee :Ian Tue Jan 23 18:00:58 2001: :jah-darpa!-jah-darpa@ws202-99.darpa.mil PART #joint-committee :Hendler gone Tue Jan 23 18:19:54 2001: :stefan!+stefan@Stefan.Stanford.EDU QUIT :